When one begins to practise judo, one makes the choice of an attitude in behaviour, a way of being that moves towards what is better. The better of oneself, at the same time as the better of relationships, mutual help and mutual concessions as defined by Kano. That means that each day one wishes to improve. To do everything better, understanding, relationships with others, going beyond one’s bad sides such as anger, revenge, jealousy, fear. The stake is personal commitment. It is the necessity of a complete commitment.

Going beyond one’s bad sides? Does this mean putting one’s faults completely aside?

In this decision to improve globally, the idea of looking at oneself comes into play. Everyone does that, whether in religion or in loving someone, making a return to oneself to become aware of bad instincts. Then, instead of keeping them and nourishing them, this decision consists in setting them aside. Not necessarily in eliminating them, because changing completely is difficult. Or perhaps in the long run, with the practice of judo. It is a way of reforming oneself. This decision does not compel immediately, it is a decision over time. That is why I never speak of it on the tatami. On the tatami I only ever speak of specific things. I speak of decision, but not like this.

Why not say this?

Because it is too important and too long to explain it each time to each person. In teaching there are opportunities to say things. One cannot say or do anything at any moment. So it is not that I do not speak of it, it is that I do not have the need to do so, except for each person at the right moment.

Is that the value of a judoka?

One must practise regularly, diligently, without interruption, then inevitably one progresses. From the moment a practitioner progresses, they acquire the value of a grade. This grade does not distinguish a value of kata, of randori, or of effectiveness, but a general value of the individual. When one has reached the value of the higher grade, the exam is a formality to justify that grade.

At a grading that took place recently at the FFAJ, you forced someone to take their dan. Why?

It is someone I have known for a very long time, for twenty-five years. I know the value they have. I knew that for some years they had a value that their grade did not represent. They needed to take their grade in front of everyone, so that their value could be recognised. For me, they already had the dan they have just obtained.

So you could have declared their grade without forcing them to take the exam?

Yes, but that does not interest me. That is a difficult point. There are people who must access a grade and others who must not access it. I am responsible for judo at the FFAJ, I am technical director, it is for me to take decisions accordingly. This judoka we are speaking about, he has to be forced to present himself for a grade. He had to do it. And he had to do it through the presentation of kata and the effectiveness test.

How do you conceive the effectiveness test in this context?

Since the grading exam is a formality, the effectiveness test for the grade is a formality. If I present someone for a grade, it is because I consider they are worth it. I must therefore give them the possibility to do it. I must put in front of them people whom they could possibly beat. Whether they succeed or not is something else, but I must offer them things they are capable of doing.

But you always leave room for it not to work?

Of course. In fact, that is what happened, he did not succeed in his effectiveness test.

You could arrange for everything to take place according to a well-regulated protocol?

There is no such idea at all.

You give the possibility of passing the grade, but anything can happen?

Of course. But I am not going to put him in an insurmountable situation, that would mean nothing.

In some cases, can the effectiveness test be replaced by randori?

Yes, for older judoka and for those who have fewer possibilities. For them we do not ask for an effectiveness test, we ask for randori. But it is not excluded to make an exception. It has happened that I made older judoka do an effectiveness test. I did it without warning them in advance, without them expecting it. I judged that it was possible and necessary for them to do it.

But they were not expecting it?

No, but they should have been expecting it.

Did they not experience it as a trap or an injustice that you did not warn them?

It has happened, yes. After the exam, I explained to them why I had made them do it like that. The point is not to set up exams that people think they can do or that they want to do, but exams they are capable of doing.

Can there be cases where the exam is a little more severe than normal?

It can happen for judoka who are in a particular situation within the FFAJ. Because of their attitude, because of their position, I must be more severe with them than with others. That is the case for those on the technical commission. They must have the value and representativeness of a member of the technical commission. For teachers too, I must be more severe than for practitioners. But if I know they are incapable of succeeding, I do not make them do it, there is no point. It serves no purpose.

You yourself, did you take grades under these conditions?

Yes, my fourth dan. Mr Michigami forced me to prepare it. He told me and one of my friends that we had to take it. We needed a high grade because we were on the governing committee of the Collège des Ceintures Noires. We were among the leaders. When there were important events at the Collège, we organised them, we were trusted to organise them. Fourth dan at that time was a high grade, because there were few. So it had great importance.

How long did you work on it?

I prepared it for a season, seriously, very seriously. I worked almost every day with that aim.

Does it happen to award dan for honour, without an exam?

Not for honour, no. Always for value. It is possible to award it without an exam for high grades, not for the first ones. For first and second dan, one must take the exam normally. In principle it is the teacher who makes the request. And the teacher must be vigilant, it is not normal for a student to drag on and not want to present themselves.

Can the exams take place in public?

In general, grading exams take place in private, they are not public.

For what reasons?

Because it does not concern the public. And then it disturbs those who are taking their grade. There is no reason for it to be public, the exam must not be disturbed. But it can sometimes be otherwise. In any case, it is I who decides the grading arrangements according to the situation.

There is no absolute rule?

No, that is the case for example with marking scales, which I refuse to establish. One cannot set down black on white rules for grading exams. It is to that understanding that I try to train the people on the technical commission. The commission is composed of people I have appointed. At each meeting I explain clearly what must guide them in their judgement.

It is an availability that is not easy to have, that the rules are shifting, that one cannot rely on established criteria?

People who work with me really must understand that. Decisions must be taken according to the necessities that judo indicates. There is no injustice, no bias, no preferences. That is how I sometimes make decisions that seem arbitrary.

It remains a difficult thing to define value?

It is very difficult to know the value of a grade. In gatherings of black belts, it often happens that by seeing someone walk onto the tatami I say, “That one has the value of such-and-such a grade.” And I am rarely wrong, it is visible in their behaviour and their movement.

One sees it in their attitude?

Yes, it is because they have that experience, that intrinsic value of a grade. They are not necessarily the best fighter, not necessarily the best teacher, but they have a value, the value of their grade, or of the grade they should have. Attitude, behaviour, and mastery, all of that is part of the value of the individual.

Is that why you refuse to think of exams in an accounting way?

Yes, it cannot be classified. It has to be more open.